David Helman

By Randall E on Nov 1, 2009 | Reply

Does it matter what "strings" are attached?

If the government gives these clowns $25BN of our money, do you think you’ll EVER see a PENNY?

Pssssssst - Amy, whether or not you believe in the problem, the free market is solving it for you. The consumers are CHOOSING Toyota and Honda. The proposed bailout would force the consumers, in their capacity as taxpayers, to override their own choices and keep these three dinosaurs in business, at least for another couple of years.

These inept management teams sign union contracts that are no sustainable and more importantly, they fail to produce what the consumers want to buy, at any price much less at a price that generates a profit.

Why should we reward gross mismanagement?

And the audacity of these clowns swooping in to DC in their Gulfstream jets, asking for taxpayer dollars!!!!!

Are they out of their minds? Is Congress out of its mind?

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By JOHNNIE B on Nov 1, 2009 | Reply

Going Green is a big part of the problem. Stop that garbage and let the Eng. design our cars.
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By Hank on Nov 1, 2009 | Reply

Most definitely. In terms of applying green technology, the US has been lagging behind most industrialized nations because of our legislation (or lack thereof), and the idiocy and mis-management of these big three bozo’s . Even the famous trio Moe-Larry-and-Curly could have done a better job than these three clowns.

If these clowns don’t follow through with the "green strings attached" you mentioned, their alternative should be: "they should be given ropes and they can just go hang themselves!"

The US has the technology to be the world leader in spearheading the green movement, but the lack of incentive has left us sprawling in the dust quarreling over the loose change from oil and gas when there are billions to be made in alternative energy. C’mon we are smarter and more capable than tapping fossil fuel!

Going green is a HUGELY underdeveloped sector and we should shift our 6.5% of unemployed workers towards this sector! I don’t understand why people are so afraid of unemployment if these big three fail. I say, let them fail, have developers of green technology take their place, and all their workers should seek employment in this new sector.
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By Max B on Nov 1, 2009 | Reply

yes, i think there should be green strings attached, such as having the companies be required to produce green cars, like the chevy volt. This will hopefully kickstart the green car movement.
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By Dawei on Nov 1, 2009 | Reply

I mostly agree with Randall. I mean one of the big reasons these companies started to suffer is because they didn’t go green, they continued to make enormous vehicles in a world of $4.10/gallon. Toyota and Honda were betting on such a price spike a while ago, and now they’re cashing in.

Toyota and Honda had no intentions of being the morally superior company when they first started making the Prius and Insight; it was an economics decision. They were counting that fuel prices would rise and as a result people would want higher efficiency. I seriously doubt that American environmentalism factored very highly into their decision (the Prius was being designed long before Al Gore’s movie came out, which is when most Americans started to give a hoot.)

I can’t see any reason why the big three would NOT want to shift their focus to greener cars, and can only imagine that they just could not afford it. They waited too long to change and now it’s too late.

Whether or not we attach any strings should prove irrelevant; efficiency is now the goal and only hope of salvation. It’s a lesson that has been learned the hard way three times over.
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By jim z on Nov 1, 2009 | Reply

When the government mandates what cars they can make and their fuel efficiency, American Auto makers already had a green noose around their neck. A bigger noose was the unions. Having the Democrats bail out a union that sends them millions if not hundreds of millions of dollars amounts to the American people paying the bill for Democrat corruption. I am not a democrat. I don’t want my money going to bail out Union contracts that are untenable. Putting green strings isn’t going to make people buy the cars. The big 3 make little cars, they just aren’t that good a deal. The problem is that they have to pay 2000 dollars per car for the retirement plans (It may not be that much but it is significant). They have to pay for health care thanks to the "red" strings government has attached to it. We are like Gulliver with all sorts of strings tying us down. Eventually we will not be able to break through. We need to cut the strings. Leftists love their strings.
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By BB on Nov 1, 2009 | Reply

No…. no ‘Green’ strings should be attached. Let the market decide what business makes for them… NOT some group of unrealistic hippies.

I would agree that whoever receives a Loan from the government, should make reasonable efforts to make their existing operation more efficient, but trying to force so-called ‘green vehicles’ down the consumer’s throat is something that our Nation should not do.
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By Dana1981, Master of Science on Nov 1, 2009 | Reply

Absolutely. People are demanding fuel efficient cars, and the Big 3 had multiple opportunities to start providing them. From the hybrid development program under the Clinton Administration to the electric vehicle requirements from California to a test market in Europe (where they’ve demanded fuel efficient cars for a long time). The Big 3 have resisted making fuel efficient cars for decades.

Now they’re collapsing. If we’re going to give them $25 billion, I don’t want to just assume that they finally get it. That’s a huge sum of money! If we’re going to give them such a large bailout, we need to be sure they’re going to produce some seriously green cars, not just for economic reasons, but also for environmental reasons.

A large percentage of our greenhouse gas emissions comes from road travel, and this is an excellent opportunity to ensure that we have green options in then near future to reduce this contribution to global warming. As with many examples today, economic and environmental health go hand-in-hand. I certainly don’t trust the Big 3 to make efficient cars now. People like to talk about how the free market fixes everything - if that were the case the Big 3 wouldn’t need a bailout in the first place, let alone the housing market, financial institutions, etc.!

The main green string we need to attach to any auto bailout is to significantly increase the fuel efficiency requirements of their product fleets.
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By Common Sense on Nov 1, 2009 | Reply

Nope..
Government is the last one you want involved
in any business..
It was government regulations on Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac
and housing loans for banks that got us into this financial
mess in the first place…
Thank Christopher Dodd, Barney Frank, Ted Kennedy and
the Democratic Congress for this mismanagement.
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By Heretic on Nov 1, 2009 | Reply

Sure there should be strings attached, but in a industry that large. It doesn’t happen overnight. All have been confronted with bad management practices that’s coming around to haunt the industry. By the same token efficient automobiles have been out for awhile. It’s just no one had a desire for that type of vehicle. They are well aware of markets demands, but the bottom line is what sells. The current economic crisis and fuel crunch, didn’t really leave a large window for transition. I know Ford had been practicing lean manufacturing and downsizing for @ least the last ten years.

I see another issue that has a direct correlation with Unionized labor. As a former employee no concessions can be made on the individual level. Most employee’s complain that the Union was overbearing in demands. Those of us that had a desire to change or negotiate with management couldn’t. In perspective it will only work from the top down and not the bottom up. And yes the Union needs to make responsible decessions, that represent the company as a whole.

I had one of the better paying jobs. And to clear up a recent publicized misconception. No we don’t make $60.00 per hour, closer to $30. for skilled labor after a 2-4yr apprenticeship program with college credits and certification. Nor does the average person understand the type of work involved. The retention rate for new hires is something like 1:50. They just quit,and not fired.

Anyway here’s a link that may hold some interest?

http://www.uaw.org/auto/11_18_08auto2.cfm
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By peter.jungmann on Nov 1, 2009 | Reply

Sure, if you really want to just throw money away. Half the reason they’re in the trouble they’re in is all the strings that have been tied to everything they do.

They should be bankrupt. (Which will put themselves in the same boat with most of the "green" energy initiatives.)

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By little.robbergirl on Nov 1, 2009 | Reply

the only reason for a bailout is to save jobs, and as we have seen here in u.k. with, well all our bike and then car manufacturers, some of which were held out of the water for years by gov. money, it is only short term, and a waste of money. eventualy they go under or get bought out by the japanese and shut down. too many cars being made now anyway.

forget g.m. ! he’s gone, man.
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By bmoc2525 on Nov 1, 2009 | Reply

They spend 5 billion per month so you bail them out for 5 months. It would take a year to retool the US industry so you’d better be willing to give them a lot more than that. They were profitable while the SUV, truck and crossover business was good. If you strangle them with more restrictions you will put them out of business.

They need to declare bankruptcy and renegotiate the union contracts. (ie stop paying full pay and benefits to laid-off workers).
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By Carroll on Nov 1, 2009 | Reply

Two thumbs for Randell E You got my vote. As far as green strings attached. There should be Grape vines attached big ones. The Big 3 put themselves out of business. When it was cheaper for the Japanese to put a high Quality Car on our roads plus Shipping them half way around the world. The Big 3 Was asleep at the wheel then and still are. There Dinosaurs and what they didn’t see just sunk up and bit them in the you know what. I bought a new vehicle once in my life 1974 a truck it cost $4,000. I am now 54 and cannot afford another.
I would certainly look at Toyota’s The next time. The Big 3 Bye Bye.
Everyone should read Randell E’s Answer again
Happy Caving Carroll
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